This transcript has been edited for clarity.

Episode 013 – A Little Cult Crazy: Head Coverings

July 5, 2023

T: Hi, I’m Tracey.

S: And I’m Sharon. And we are Feet of Clay…

T: Confessions of the Cult Sisters.

S: And we’re going to do something just a little bit different today. Are you ready Tracey?

T: Ready!

T&S: (singing) Zacchaeus was a wee little man, and a wee little man was he; and this little pod is a wee little pod, and a wee little pod for thee. (in operatic style)

(laughter)

S: Oh, okay. Why did we do that?

T: Because Zacchaeus was little! He was short. And this episode is short. Get it? You’re welcome.

(laughter)

S: We have discovered that to do this podcast thing with the degree of focus and attention that we want to give it – well, that’s taking quite a bit of time, isn’t it. So we both have real life, fulltime jobs. Tracey works in the money grubbing corporate world, and I’m – well, actually I’m totally overwhelmed, because I’m semi-retired and I’m busy spending my kids’ inheritance.

T: Sharon will never be retired, but we’ve been told that best practices in podcasting mean that we have to put something out every week.

S: Yes, and we want to be best, Tracey! We always are about being best!

T: Be best, Sharon! Be best.

S: That brings back some bad memories.

(laughter)

S: So we figured that sometimes we do the semi-freeform, shorter thing, and that’s what this is today.

T: Thus the Zacchaeus episode. You know Sharon, we’ve lived a pretty freaky parallel journey.

S: Yeah.

T: And the telling of that journey obviously is going to continue to unfold in many of our episodes.

S: Yes, yes it will.

T: But in that parallel journey, I would say there are definitely times when one of us was more spiritual than the other. And by that (especially for those old fundies like us, when you know that someone is being more spiritual), it means that we were way more intense in our faith, or carried out just a little bit more extremely some of the practices.

(laughter)

S: Yes, go on. Go on.

T: So because of that, and if listeners have been listening to us, we’ve kind of already hinted…

S: Wait – if they’re a listener, wouldn’t they have been listening?

(laughter)

T: Well hopefully. It’s the little thread that’s gone through as far as who gets the point, who’s the one that’s more spiritual?

S: Yeah, okay.

T: So I was thinking that I would like to make this just a little bit more formal and get a real game with a real prize.

S: A real prize. Alright, so we’ve got the contest, but what are the prizes we’re playing for? Are we talking money, a trophy, a trip, or what?

T: I was thinking like an Oscar, a statuette, only being more in keeping with kind of the theme of our show – actually Sharon, I’ve already ordered it…

S: Oh you’re kidding.

T: I did, I already ordered it and it’s not here yet, but as soon as it is I’ll be able to post a picture of the amazing…

S: What is it?

T: It’s a statuette. I don’t know if I want to give the spoiler. I had thought about Proverbs 31 type statue, kind of blending with where we’ve come in our journey, so I’ll have to say that the spoiler is it may be a woman on her knees.

S: Because she’s submissive, right? Oh no, no, wait – a woman on her knees!

T: Oh Sharon.

S: Oh my god, have you ever been to one of those bachelorette parties, and they have one of those tiny penis lollipops?

T: Uh, yes I have.

S: I’m gonna get one. I have to win this statue because I need to win this. I’m in. I’m all in.

T: Are you doing the thing where sometimes we get feedback that we’re a little crass?

S: Um, yeah.

T: A little crass.

S: Yeah. Well, you know, fuck it. I’m me.

T: So, today’s game –

S: Wait. How are you going to track this? Can I trust you to not cheat? Is there a finish date?

T: So maybe this is a good time to put a little heads up that we might be putting up a website and if we have a page, we would keep the scoreboard there, with a picture of the coveted prize. I think that would be awesome.

S: Oooh, I like that.

T: So today’s game – this is the formal game – is going to be on the topic of head coverings. I wish I had some music, because you know – who was more spiritual? That’s our game.

S: Oh my god. Wait, I got this.

T: Not so fast! Everybody, head coverings. If you’re following a lot of us former cult people, head coverings factor into a lot of these little sects and segments of Christianity. So of course, the idea of a head covering comes from the bible – actually, a whole long passage of 1 Corinthians 11, which I am not going to read.

S: Thank you for that.

T: I don’t think anybody needs to read it, but we read it for you. We’ll post it in our show notes if you just have to read it. We’ll pull out one section, it comes from 1 Corinthians 11:6 – for if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off. But it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off, or to have her head shaved, then she should cover her head. Such a weird passage!

S: So they clearly have never seen Sinead O’Connor or Demi Moore back with GI Jane, or Deni Guerrera – certainly the bible wasn’t very sensitive to women who might be in chemotherapy for cancer.

T: Absolutely not.

S: Just one of a zillion reasons why this is all bullshit, but Tracey, I think there’s a more insidious scripture – I don’t remember exactly where it is, but it talks about why women should cover their heads, and it has something to do with the angels and spiritual submission, and all that kind of crap.

T: So I was sparing everybody from the long passages, but let’s just say that the bible makes this weird, rambling case for covering your head. It pulls in your hair, it pulls in submission and it pulls in the angels – I think it’s just rambling. Very, very weird.

S: But it’s there.

T: It is there.

S: In the infallible, all inspired word of God, it’s there.

T: It is there. I had posted during our purity culture series 1-4 if you haven’t listened to that, go back and listen, that I really struggled for years knowing how to dress as a godly woman. Modesty culture can be very confusing, and I was always trying to make sure I was covered up and then you don’t want to be too attractive, then I got talked to for not keeping myself groomed enough. You know, the thing I never struggled with – which is very odd – I never struggled with whether I should wear a head covering or not. It’s so clearly stated, so it’s a classic case of the picking and the choosing that so many of us do with the passages, and I obviously picked and chose not that one.

S: That is a great example of the picking and choosing, so we’re going to do a much longer, deep dive into that whole bible gymnastics thing in the future, for sure.

T: Yes. So Sharon, I’d like to ask you, before we get our game started, did you ever struggle with having to wear a head covering?

S: Oh my god, I’m really going to go public and admit this, because you know I did. That was a set up question.

T: Well it was kind of a leading question, because of course listeners, I knew she wore a head covering for a time. I knew this, because Sharon asked me to take her shopping for a head covering.

S: Well what am I supposed to do? At that time I’m living in Richmond Virginia, and you are up in Lancaster County with the Amish and the Mennonites, and they’re all wearing head coverings, so I’m like okay, you’re my soul sister.

T: I’m your go-to.

S: You can hook me up, girl.

T: Yes, and that’s one of the reasons earlier on I wanted you to get the pronunciation right because obvious there was a group of us post-Last Days Ministries members who lived in Lancaster County amongst the Amish and the Mennonites, because I bet there’s listeners out there who would say huh, where would you go shopping for a head covering?

(laughter)

T: And because I lived in Lancaster County which was the center, there was actually a head covering store.

(laughter)

S: If there’s a website –  wait a second, well of course … wait.

T: There’s not a website, it’s the Amish!

(laughter)

S: Well maybe they’ve moved into that! They want to make…

T: They have like, a phone at the end of their driveway.

S: Ohh man.

T: To clarify, this store is for members of the community to come because truly, if you go into that area the Amish quilts are gorgeous, beautiful seamstresses, lot of good handiwork, so this really is a store of many head coverings. Handmade, that were beautiful. So do you remember that?

S: Oh my gosh, I do. I wish I could remember what year that was. My daughter was with us; was she five years old, four years old? I don’t know.

T: Between four and six.

S: Between four and six. Okay, somewhere 1989, 1990-ish. So this church that we were going to in Richmond, it was called House of Prayer. I think it was like a non-denominational charismatic kind of church. I was probably in one of those intense phases of my spiritual life and seeking the Lord; what do I need to do Jesus, to go deeper with you? And of course, I’m always laying everything on the altar including our pride – remember how we used to think that the more difficult something was, the more it must be something that God wants us to do, right? It’s a test; it’s a challenge of our faith, to put nothing else above him. Do you remember that?

T: Yes, of course, I do remember that, and in a church environment that’s not wearing head coverings, that would definitely make you show your devotion, that you were really sold out to God.

S: Ohhh yeah. So I don’t remember exactly what sparked it, it must have been in my personal prayer time, I’m reading the bible and I must have read these scriptures – again, because of course I’ve read them over and over throughout my lifetime.

T: Yes!

S: And somehow it struck me – wait, the bible says do this, so why am I not doing this? And I guess that’s when I called you, Tracey.

T: You did call me, and because I lived in an environment where many people did wear head coverings, I didn’t say Sharon, I think you should re-think that, or Sharon, let me tell you how I came to that conclusion.

S: Where were you for me? You failed me!

(laughter)

T: I was like, people have to follow their own callings of God and if this is what God is calling Sharon to, then I am there for you. I am gonna help you get a head covering. So, I’m not shopping for head coverings, but you were so important to me I did a little homework…

S: You’re so sweet!

T: We did have some close friends that used to be at Last Days who had a family church that was Mennonite, so we called them and they said oh yeah, this little shop in the back of this farm in the rolling hills of Lancaster County – we’ll call her ahead and they’ll met you there and you can go through and pick one out. So I have to set the stage for the listeners, because while God was calling you to wear a head covering, he wasn’t calling you to wear dresses; he wasn’t calling you to wear the ankle length, or to cover up your legs, or to wear the big collared shirts. You had the freedom to wear shorts, and it was summer so you were wearing shorts and I think I brought my daughter, so it was you and your daughter – listeners, we come bursting into this shop…

(laughter)

T: And Sharon is like a kid in a candy store, because there are not a lot of head covering shops. We burst in on the scene; we’re loud – you guys may have been able to gather that from our podcast – and she’s like, OH MY GOD, look at all these! I remember being embarrassed because I knew the culture of these Mennonite people, and they are quiet and sober women who keep their head covering as a devotion to God. And you are running from table to table, look at this one, shall I get more of a scarf one, do you have a mirror so I can put it on – and you’re trying on these head coverings.

S: I cannot stop laughing remembering this – oh my god. How culturally inappropriate.  

T: It was as if we were shopping for her bridal veil. That was the level of exuberant enthusiasm we were showing, and I was catching glimpse of this woman whose shop this was, and she was – she was going to sell us the head coverings but she was side-eyeing us like, what would possess these women to think – I just imagined in her head, oh honeys, you have to cover up so much more than just your head.

(laughter)

S: Oh my god, Tracey. I don’t know if I have much more to add to that, because you remember it very well.

T: I do remember it very well. So much so that then you daughter – and this I have to give you kudos for being a great parent, because there’s a part of me that’s like let get in and get what we need and get out and let this woman get back to her life. And then your daughter’s like, I want a pink one. She was in her pink phase.

S: Oh, she wanted everything pink. Yes, she did.

T: And you looked at me and I was like, I doubt the Amish head coverings store has some pink head covering. For those of you who want to do your research; from the Amish to the Mennonite, there’s a huge spectrum of what they allow and what they don’t allow, but color is not usually what’s happening. Somehow I think we found one with a little bit of lace that was sewn around with a little bit of pink edging on it, and we were like yes! Thank God there’s a pink one.

S: Yes. Ohhh.

T: Oh my word. So I guess the clincher for me was you turned around to me, and in your ever so generous way said, do you want one? Do you and your daughter want one too?

(laughter)

T: And I was like no, no Sharon. I’ve heard from God. I don’t need to wear a head covering.

S: But I didn’t judge you for that. I did think you might want to consider it, but I didn’t judge you.

T: So when you got these back, tell me how this changed your life.

S: Oh my god. Alright, so my daughter and I – I did start wearing these head coverings to our more free charismatic church, and there’s NO other woman wearing a head covering. No one else. I remember struggling with feelings like – well, it was this dichotomy, it was like spiritual pride, and then real human embarrassment. I’m holding my head up very high, I’m walking with great posture into Sunday service. I don’t think anyone had the courage to ask me about it. I think they all just tried to pretend I wasn’t wearing a doily on my head.

(laughter)

T: That was the kind that Sharon chose in the head covering shop. I had travelled…

S: I was being understated.

T: You were being understated. In my heart of hearts, I was like if I’m going to wear a head covering, I’m going all in. I had been around other cultures, like the Indian women who have the saris, so they’re always able to wrap their head covering around their head. Or you have the full veil, like Mother Mary. The doily thing – to me that was like a compromiser’s way to wear a head covering.

(laughter)

S: Okay, but you know what? This is what I think now would be hysterical – what if I had bought a series of insane hats? The bible’s not specific on what kind of head covering, so maybe I could do a whole bunch of them. The vulture hat! Remember the vulture hat worn by Snape, who was like, okay he’s really vulgar whenever Longbottom is thinking about his grandmother. What?

T: You really did it. You really brought in a Harry Potter reference to our head covering episode. I can’t believe you did that.

S: Hey girlfriend, I’m amazing; I can do shit you never dreamed possible.

(laughter)

S: To like, then go to church every Sunday with something more and more ridiculous on your head, just to see how long it would take for someone to ask about it.

T: Oh my god, that would be the Sharon now.

S: You’re right.

T: So then eventually what happened? How long did that last?

S: I don’t know – months later? I don’t remember when I stopped or why I stopped, but somehow it must not have seemed like – essential, anymore.

T: Maybe you got the revelation – for our listeners, remember when we interviewed Abigail, that was the thing that stood out to me out of the Bill Gothard …

S: Oh, Abigail who was in IBLP.  

T: Yes. When I watched the documentary that screamed at me as all of these women who were dressed so modestly – none of them have head coverings.

S: Oh, you’re right!

T: We asked her why and I guess there’s a lot to it, but the default was because the woman’s hair is her head covering. So maybe you had that revelation, Sharon.

S: Ah. The long hair.

T: Yeah. But this is what I remember you saying, because I took note of these things.

S: Okay…

T: You only felt led by God that you had to have it when you prayed, so you were in this weird place of having to run and get your doily – oh my god, I have to pray, I wasn’t expecting to, let me grab my doily, I have to put my doily on  – oh I don’t have to wear it now … and I think it became too much of a hassle.

(laughter)

S: Oh my god. If I had to wear one right now, I’m going to get one of those cute little devil horns on a headband – the Halloween costume stuff. Hey, maybe we should always wear those when we’re recording our podcast.

T: I think we should! And then when we can actually post video that would be great. So all that to say, listeners – both of us can be kind of competitive from time to time, and you’ll hear us awarding each other who gets the point. I have to give this one to you Sharon.

S: That’s right! Swish!! Nothing but net, it’s all mine.

(laughter)

T: We’ll put a page up that will describe this game, but you know how everything has an insidious undertone in biblical fundamentalism? The winners of this game are really the losers.

S: Oh my god. The winners are the losers.

T: But you get the point for being the most spiritual woman by submitting to God and to your husband, by covering your head.

S: Thank you. Well I definitely need to win this yet-to-be-revealed trophy, and buy my little penis lollipops. So I’m in, girl. I’m in it to win it.

T: You’re in it to win it, and I’ll have to figure out who has won which point. Alright.

S: Okay. Well that’s a wrap of our first little-little episode.

T: Or would you say our wee little episode?

S: Our wee little episode, and since we all know that size doesn’t matter, we hope you enjoyed this as much as we did.

T: And as always folks, please subscribe and follow our podcast and please share this with your friends and family, and anyone else you think would enjoy our stories coming out of the cults.

S: Or just enjoy making fun of us and laughing with us, so yes, please share. And give us a rating; leave a comment if you dare, find images and fun stuff on Instagram, Feet of Clay.cult sisters.

T: I don’t think that you ever took a picture of you with a head covering on, so that’s gonna be hard.

S: Oh yeah, I don’t either.

T: That would have been pride.

S: What we’ll do is photoshop a series of hats on me, since we don’t have one of the…

T: Oh my god, that would be amazing. Maybe that’s gonna be our merch. Head coverings by the Cult Sisters. Ooh. I’m liking it.

S: It could be one white wing and one black wing.

T: Oooh.

S: I like that.

T: It’s like a snitch on your head. Ohhhh.

S: Oooo.

T: Are you impressed?

S: Oh god. Alright. We’ll see you next time everybody.

T: See you next time.